all I'm saying is clean your own house before mud slinging, last I checked these 3 are recent and two are still going on but I'm supposed to feel like a horrible person for something that happened 700 years before I was born when you guys can't own up to the past few decades?
1 year ago
@Umilik: you may be right about Hitler but 1 crazy doesn't define the whole RCC and actually in Stalin's case he was an atheist and anyone who didn't renounce their EASTERN (not easter) Orthodox faith was killed for it.
I actually agree with you. Modern day Christians should not be held responsible for things such as the Crusades and the Inquisition, just as your average atheist isn't responsible for Joseph Stalin. Those arguments are besides the point and do little to further any real discussion.
There's no such thing as an "officially athiest" society. The societies you are referring to may not have been religious, but they were certainly based on irrational ideaologies (some people use North Korea as an example, despite the fact that Kim Ill Sung is still somehow the leader even though he's dead, and that he is a sort of godlike...doesn't sound very atheistic to me)
But how do you explain that the safest countries in the world to live (New Zealand, and Eastern European nations like Sweden, iceland, Finland), are also the least religious? And they also tend to have higher levels of education, greater health, better standards of living, etc....
"I'm supposed to feel like a horrible person for something that happened 700 years before I was born when you guys can't own up to the past few decades?"
The problem is, the instances of religious oppression and atrocities were done BECAUSE of the religion. The oppression you're referring to (particularly the communist regimes) aren't in the "name of atheism", they're due to other crazy idealogies (that are just as silly as religious beliefs)
It's true. The difference is..
The crusades and the inquisition were both lead by people who claimed moral superiority and who believed in 10 commandments such as "Thou shall not kill".
Atheists never claim to have morals. So it's a nice surprise when we do, but not required.
The crusades and inquisitions (and a lot of other things "Christians" have started in the name of God) are worse because they prove themselves hypocrites.
I don't want enforced atheism any more than I want enforced Christianity or enforced Islam. You should be able to believe what you want. Your religion should not grant you privileges nor should it mean you are discriminated against.
There's the matter that those regimes incorporated atheism, but atheism was not the reason for their massacres. The reason for those were paranoid dictators. Meanwhile, the Crusades and Inquisition were specifically about religion. Correction, most of the massacres were about paranoia and potential threats to power, there were a few religion related purges.
Lastly, I'd like to say that both groups have horrible people in them and talking about the worst examples of each other doesn't really get us anywhere.
That is untrue. Even communism is not based on atheism. And Hitler was religious.
We atheists can cite the horrors of the crusades and the Inquisition to give examples of the horrors inflicted by religion, but it is not necessary. There are many other examples of why religion is bad. And these are much more subtle. Things like trying to teach creationism, school prayer, suppressing true science like evolution. And don't stop there. Look at the incredible misogyny in the Middle East, all in the name of the MALE god.
Religion is horrible horrible horrible for our species and for our world. We don't have to look back centuries to show that. The horrors exist today. Open your eyes and LOOK!
edit: the USSR, North Korea and China have or had oppressive regimes due to a lot of reasons, and they suppress religion, but atheism is not the basis of their existence, their philosophy or their power. Don't kid yourself.
Hurr durr I don't know the difference between communist dictators enforcing state atheism and people killing for their god.
And the ONLY time I will bring up the inquisition or the crusades is when Christians claim to have some kind of copyright on moral behavior or claim that with their god they couldn't possibly do wrong.
North Korea is a highly religious county, dumbass.
Kim Jong-il and his father are considered gods. How stupid are you? It's part of their propaganda. That's why the dead father who died in 1994 is still the president. His official position is "Eternal President of the Republic." They believe he still rules in heaven.
Because it's like a broken record.
I'd like to see them go after the Muslims and Islam for all the killing going one every year. Over 100,000 Christians are killed just because of their belief.
But then again Christians can take it.